Nevada is not just a battleground in this presidential election. The state and in particular, Clark County, that's home to Las Vegas and home to almost three quarters of the statewide population, is a political bellwether in a very specific way. The economic anxiety that you find all across the country, well, you will find it on steroids right there. The pandemic simply gutted, crushed, an economy built around tourism. Nevada had the highest Covid unemployment rate in the nation, not just the highest, at one point twice the national average. 30%. Imagine that 30% unemployment and the hangover from all of that is still affecting people, even though most of the jobs are back. Even though the numbers are better, people still feel scared and anxious even more. Way more than any other place we have visited. The economy is the issue driving political decision making.
You know, we took a big hit during the Covid and we're barely turning it around, and we need to keep moving forward in order to stay in business.
The other thing that makes Nevada so critical and so important to keep tabs on is the huge power of the Latino vote. About one fifth of the voters in the state identify as Hispanic or Latino, and that number is growing. But as a bloc, especially this year, far from being a monolith.
Most of my friends are, Trump Republicans, b ut for me it's different.
We're going to hear from two voters we visited and revisited in the last year. These voters offer us a window on a state where this incredibly close election just might be decided. I'm John King, and this is all over the map.
Now here, the young ladies, they're making some shrimp tacos.
'Antonio Mu?oz owns the 911 taco bar. It's a fantastic little restaurant catering outfit that serves up great tacos. The signature dish is a rib eye. Try it if you're there. The restaurant's just a few miles off the Las Vegas Strip. First time we came to see Antonio, he was more than unhappy with his options. Thought both Biden and Trump were too old. And like several small business owners we have met in the course of this project. He was not willing to talk about who we voted for in 2020. He said it was too risky, especially in a 50-50 state when you're running a small business, might cost him customers, he's a veteran. He's a former police officer, started this business as a quote unquote retirement job, and he's really busy at it and trying to build it and grow it.
Your state and your community got hit hardest during Covid when everything shut down. I mean, this was the know sort of fell off the planet economically during Covid. Where are we in terms of coming back? Where would you put it on the scale if Covid was zero and ten is, you know, back to a good healthy place.
I think we're about five right now, or about 50% heading back into hopefully the right direction. I think it could have been worse. Everybody was expecting for the worst. They are expecting a major recession and you know you have a recession. The first thing that doubled down is the food business that people are going to stay home, but people haven't stayed home. Things are still moving forward. And hopefully, the inflation continues to trickle down and the housing prices, I mean, I don't see how people afford home these days. My son just bought his first home three months ago, and it's amazingly, he pays three quarters more than I pay. And he had an older home, smaller, less room. You know, something really has to be done to help these guys because they can't raise their money that much, their hourly pay. And they're union workers. You know, my kid's a union worker. He makes good money. And he, it's going to be a struggle for him to pay it.
Do you hear the candidates talking about that enough?
Not enough, not enough at all. I don't I think I heard Kamala say it one time and, I don't think I've heard Trump say anything about how to fix it, you know.
So when I was here the first time, it was Trump Biden then, and you said, now we're not. That's the those aren't going to be the candidates. So how did you feel in July when all of a sudden Biden goes away?
I ?actually felt a relief. You know, after that debate, it was obvious that, unfortunately, Biden had aged. And for us to have somebody running our country, we need somebody that's at the forefront and ready and energized to take our country forward.
When we were first here, we were talking about how competitive Nevada is and how more competitive the competition for Latino voters is. What did the Harris switch do to the mood, to the energy, to the conversation?
You know, personally, it, it gave me something else to look at, because I really felt the two candidates that we had at that point in time before Kamala came on was stagnant. I really do feel that it changed the perspective of a lot of voters. But, you know, it's still a tough state. You know, I have a lot of my friends that are going Republican. Right now after this last debate, you know, I heard some things I like from Kamala, but I didn't hear enough.
So you're not 100% there yet. You're leaning that way.
I'm leaning that way. I still want to see her stance on small businesses and what they're going to do to provide help for us, because, you know, we took a big hit during the Covid and we're barely turning it around. And we need to keep moving forward in order to stay in business. And I would like to see her platform when it comes to small business.
But what specifically do you think, hat could Washington do to help you here?
The taxation, especially the payroll tax. You know, that really affects us quite a bit because, you know, you're trying to bring on more employees to help. But at the same time, the taxation is extremely high.
And so help me understand what she could do to seal the deal. You clearly don't want to go back to Trump. You'd prefer not to.
But but she hasn't won you over yet.
She hasn't completely. Now, I wish you would have a more of a direct message. You know, I've been checking her, her website and you read it, but it's very. It's not specific. You know, we do need to move forward. We need a different plan to get over the hump, with this inflation that has caused severe damage to a lot of businesses. Luckily, we've been able to stay afloat. And, you know, we have to wait and see, and she needs to be more direct.
You mentioned you have a lot of friends who are for Trump. Is that more so than 2020 and 2016? Is he growing? Is he flatlined? Where is he?
To me, he has grown. I have friends that were Democrats that have turned the page, and they feel that the country is not going in the right direction. We'll have discussions about it. And I always tell them, do your research. That's very important. Do your research. Because a lot of stuff that's getting put out there is fake news.
And what was the conversation after the debate, where you had Trump talking about immigrants eating dogs and cats.
You know, that, you know, I don't know, I don't want to hear about dogs and cats. I don't want to hear about I had a better border back then. I want to hear about now. What is something different you're gonna do?
If I were here right after the Trump Biden debate and Biden was still in the race, and I asked you who was going to win Nevada, what would you have said that, in those days?
I would lean towards Trump, but I would really lean towards Trump just because of the fact that I don't think he could last another four years.
And now, with a few weeks left, who's going to win Nevada?
'Ah, it's a tough one. It's a 50-50 call. You know, we just had a governor's race and our Republican governor won, he's doing well. So it's a 50-50 tossup, because this is a battleground and you cannot forget about Nevada. And they need to be out here with a direct message and, talking to the voters out here, it's tight.
In terms of the issues, you mentioned your small business perspective. Is it by far the economy? It's the top issue. And then maybe whether it's abortion, immigration, other things that kick in the economy, like, and then a big gap?
The economy, the housing crisis and immigration. Immigration is going to be something within my family that's gonna be close and personal, and no one has done anything for any of them. You know, when you try to make headway. And for our families that have been here for years and they still can't be a, you know, naturalized citizen, it's terrible. I mean, between both parties, they haven't done nothing. And, you know, the border, obviously, it seems like gotten better with this, a few things that Biden did this past couple months, but why not do it when it started? Why wait so long?
What is that, what is that conversation among your friends when you, you know, you hear Trump, that his number one, he says he wants to close the border or improve the border, but then his tone offends a lot of people. And then you have Harris saying, you know, it was Trump, that they would have signed that bill and made at least some significant progress. But Trump said, don't vote for it to Republicans.
'That I mean, how do you want the best for America and want to block something that's going to help America? And that's one of the things that hurts me the most is for him to talk down about America. America is a world leader. We have always been, and for everybody to talk down, it's the worst nation, we have the worst president. We have the worst that -- I mean, it's just rhetoric. This is America. We're the best. No matter who's there. The people make it the best.
So you don't want to vote for Trump. You're not convinced in Harris? Well, if she doesn't convince you, do you skip the president? Do you give her the benefit of the doubt? Do you go third party?
Do we have a third party?
I think Jill Stein is on the ballot here, but uh,
Yeah, I don't know who that is, so third party is definitely not a thing. I'm going to have to vote for someone, and it's going to be probably a last minute thing. And I'm I'm probably going to vote Democrat most likely at this point in time, the way things are going. But she really needs to push a little bit harder because there's not much time, and get a good platform where she's going to stick to and let us know exactly what she wants to do.
When we were here last time, you were reluctant to talk about some of this, who you voted for in the last election. Because you said it just gets you too much grief. You're trying to run a business because, you know, people say, you know, you're you're either for Biden or you're for Trump. You seem a little more open now. Is that just because in this moment or, the climate's a little different, or you're just.
Because we actually have a different candidate, you know, somebody that's below 80, I believe. Which, you know,
In her 50s. Shocking. Under 60.
Under 60. 59, to be exact.
'So you said you still think. It's 50-50 here, but she's in a better position than Biden would have been. That fair?
Definitely. Definitely. Because the you know, I go to a lot of Latino events and lunches and stuff, and you hear them speak. Some people are happier with, with the choice. You have somebody that's I wouldn't say presidential like, I mean, she's very poised, very poised. And, you know, she's done several different things within the government. You know, she came up with immigrant parents, which to me, it's amazing for someone like that to come and be able to be president. And so it's hip.
All right. Thank you for your time.
When we come back, another lens on the Vegas economy from somebody whose mind is a little more made up.
Welcome back. Zoila Sanchez has a front row seat on the roller coaster that's been the Nevada economy over the past five years. She's a real estate agent. Now, zoila considers herself a Reagan Republican, but she hasn't voted Republican for president for a very long time. She's conservative, said she would love to vote Republican. But in her view, the party she supported doesn't exist anymore.
How are things going? How's business?
For me, it's been slow. Of course, you know that interest rates hiked up really high, so a lot of people are still afraid to purchase. But this is the best time to buy. Once interest rates go down, inventory's still very low, so prices are going to go up.
And how much does that affect the mood here in terms of, you know, Nevada, Vegas were hit harder than any other place in the country during Covid when the economy just shut down. And so from then to now, where are you fully recovered?
We we are fully recovered. We're fully recovered. Our inventory here in Las Vegas is extremely low because, you know, we don't have that much land to grow. We are hoping that the federal government releases some more land so we can build more.
So you have a you have an interest rate problem in the housing market, but you also have an availability problem. So let's come to the presidential race when we were here before, you describe yourself as a Reagan Republican, who keeps voting for Democrats for president.
Why is that? I guess because I am, my nephew described me as a centrist, and I said, I don't know what that means, but I am more practical about what the person is doing for the country. And I do describe myself as a Republican, because I do think I'm a conservative type of person. I don't want the government in my business that much. And so it's incredible to see how, you know, now the Republican Party is meddling in all of our business.
So you view that as their fault. They left you. You didn't leave them?
And you're going to vote for Kamala Harris?
Am I going to vote for Kamala? Yes, I am.
Definitely. Why? Well, first of all, Donald Trump has never, I never liked him. I never like anything about him. Nothing. The way he speaks, what he represents more than anything, has nothing to do with me or my family life or anything. And of course, Kamala, at least, she represents more of who I am.
She talks to me. She just says everything that I need to hear.
Are there specific issues where you're, you say thank you. That's what we need? Or is it just more broadly?
Yes. Well, it is more broadly, but at least she is being very pragmatic about the policies that she wants to offer. I'm sorry you wanting because even though she says it, I know, I mean, it might not come true because she's not the only one that that has a say so. We all know that Congress, the Senate, they all have something to do with all that.
But is it because of her positions? Does her being a woman, being a woman of color have anything to do with it? Is that an added bonus?
It is an added bonus for me, yes. That it, well, to live another part of history. I mean, I lived it with Barack Obama. That was huge for our country's history. And now if we get to elect the first woman president, it is, I mean, I just gets chills to to witness history again.
In conversations with your friends and family, how different is it from when Biden was the candidate to now with Harris as the candidate?
They're still kind of the same. Most of my friends are, Trump Republicans, but for me, it's different. I was very disappointed when he stepped out of the race. I felt he was being judged just by his age.
But did you watch the debate?
Yes, I did, right. And it was.
Do you understand why people might have been judging him?
Yes, yes, yes. So when he first announced it, it was hard. But then I realized, you know. Yes, the debate, um, said it all.
So are you more confident that Harris can win Nevada than you would have been after that debate about Biden winning Nevada?
She's going to win Nevada, definitely.
We are all working very hard for Kamala Harris. Just by seeing the numbers. And I know that Hispanics have made a difference in a lot of elections. And I can see it right now.
Is that different in terms of the energy of other people? Is it higher with Harris than it was with Biden?
It is higher with with Harris. They're more excited about her. She's very energetic. And I think that's what we all need, energy, to realize who we are.
You mentioned you have a lot of Trump Republican friends. What do they think of the change?
Some of them, they don't really care, or a lot of them are just, lack of education. That's how I feel anyways, that they're not, they're not educated enough on the issues. They're just going by by what they hear.
Having lived through 2016, 2020 now into 2024, the Democrats won in Nevada in 2016. Hillary Clinton won. Biden won. But very close, very close. And if you go right now, if you look at the polling, it's tied. Or maybe she's plus 1 or 2, but it's very, very close. Just in terms of conversations, having lived through the last two. Where are we now in this one?
I just feel that Hispanics don't partaken in the polls. They just don't want to deal with it. I'm one of them. When they call me, I don't answer their questions.
So you think she's doing better than the polling would suggest?
You don't think it's tied.
I don't think it's tied. I think she's doing better. Maybe by a little bit. But she's doing better.
If Trump loses and goes away and the Republican Party goes back to a Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Clinton. Would you would you go back to being a Republican?
Yes, definitely. We need somebody like Mitt Romney, George W Bush, we need those kind of Republicans.
But for now, at least for president, you're a Democrat.
At least for President, yes, I'm a Democrat.
A Democratic voter, anyway. How do you describe that? How do you describe that to people who say, I'm a Republican, but I vote Democratic? How do you describe it?
Because I know Trump doesn't represent the Republican Party. You know, I know he's Republican, but I don't feel he's the Republican. And that's why so many Republicans are not backing him, that they're not endorsing him.
You were there anyway. But was there anything watching the debate, that made you more mad at him or more happy to be supporting her?
I was more happy to be supporting her. I mean, he he was lost. He just kept blaming everybody else for the problems. He basically blamed it on immigration and the border. And of course, now we all know the wildest thing was about people eating cats and dogs, which I was shocked when she said that because I had not heard it before. But everything else I think I know I first heard about, you know, that we immigrants are the worst, and we're coming from mental institutions and jails and everything else, which is not true.
It is very insulting. It is very insulting because, yes, in in every society there's, you know, criminals and people that don't follow the rules or the laws. But, when he put us all in a bundle, it is insulting.
We were talking about your son before we sat down for the interview. What's your impression of younger people? Are they where you are, or is it more of an issue?
Yeah, they, my twins are Gen Zs. They're registered nonpartisan. Of course, they would never vote for Trump. They never considered themselves Republicans. They don't agree with me on a lot of stuff. It's it's incredible. And my oldest is a millennial. He's a registered Democrat. He also doesn't agree with me on a lot of issues. But we live in the same household.
And they all going to vote for Harris?
They are going to vote for Harris.
When we're counting votes on election night, when we're done with the count. You have no doubt.
Because this state so close and competitive, if she's winning here, she's going to be President.
She's going to be President. I'm that confident.
Anything else you want to add?
No. Very excited. Very excited to be part of all this and to be living history. To me, all of this is history. History for my grandkids and everybody else that comes after me.
'Allie Malloy is the senior producer for All Over the Map. She is right there in the room with me for all of these interviews. Ten states in all over the last year-plus, including two trips to Nevada. Right?
Yep. I was trying to get in at some point the fact that I made John gamble, and he lost his money.
She was trying to teach me how to play roulette. So I put $20 in the machine. At one point I was up over $100. I knew it was time to walk away, but I just stayed until I lost it all. We didn't even go to a real table with a real deal. We just went to a computerized roulette game.
So no one could judge us.
It was pretty, it was, it was not our proudest moment.
John, we've traveled to a lot of places in our All Over the Map series this year, and we constantly hear from voters, the number one issue in their minds is usually the economy, or it's up there, but in Nevada it's just everything.
It's off the charts different. And what is striking is what you see is really not what you get. You land at the airport, it's crowded. You get in a cab or an Uber and there's traffic. You go to the casinos and there are crowds and the floor is full. And so you think, oh, Vegas is back. But the people who live in Vegas and the suburbs around it don't spend too much time on the strip. They may work there. They may have one of those good union jobs there. But when work is done, they go home. And so when we go meet our voters a couple miles away from the strip, you hear grocery prices are still high. The rents are going up. I can't afford a bigger home or I can't afford a first home. During this high interest rate period, all these big investors have come in and bought up the available properties, and they're jacking up the rents, or they're selling them at rates I can't afford because of high interest rates. And the federal government owns a lot of the land around the city, so we can't have a lot more building. And so you have an affordability cost of living crisis steps away from all the neon and all the money on the strip. They're almost afraid to be confident because every time things start to pick up, they get whacked in the head.
John, it shouldn't really be a surprise to our listeners here that we love to interview restaurant owners because we love to eat their delicious food. In Arizona, we heard from Ray, who owns a chain of restaurants in Tucson who's incredibly ambivalent as a voter. Today, we heard from our friend Antonio, who runs a restaurant and catering business, a tale of two taco joints, if you will. But where our Arizona voter, Ray, was so disaffected he was thinking third party, Tony has a very different take.
Tony is in a different place. Ray still looking. Ray still thinks third party. Tony didn't like them when we first met, but now he's leaning Harris. He wants more specifics, specifically about economic plans, or small business plans, because his small business sometimes struggles. But another thing they share, both of these guys, Ray and Antonio, the price of their products are going up. The price of their supplies are going up. To keep their profit margin, they'd have to raise prices, but if they raise prices, they might lose customers. So they have eyes on the economy. Are people spending money? Are you are your regular customers coming all the time? How much are they spending anywhere you go in America, for me, as a political reporter now for almost 40 years, if you want to find out the local economy, go to the restaurant closest to the big factory. Go to a guy who says business rises or falls based on how happy the locals are and how willing they are to spend money. And in Vegas, that's Antonio, because he's part of the community. As he says, we don't go to the strip, we're here to work. We're here to build a community, we're here to build our families. And so to me, he has an absolutely fantastic window because he has to run the books for the restaurant, and he has to fill those stools and tables. So he knows he knows the economy because he lives it every day.
Yep. So, John, conversations about immigration take on a different tone in the southwest, in no small part because of the demographics. Latino voters make up about a fifth of the electorate, and a lot of these people themselves are immigrants, or they're the children of immigrants, or they work among immigrants and their neighbors are immigrants. What do you make of the conversations that we've heard?
'It's a huge competition. And if you think about it, Barack Obama won almost 70%. He won two thirds of the Latino vote. And that was the change. That's when Nevada became blue. And it's been blue ever since. And Hillary Clinton won Nevada. Joe Biden won Nevada. So you think, why is Nevada in play this time? It's in play because of one word. Economy. You have these voters who are looking around, and a lot of them, remember, COVID crushed them. Well, what was just pre-COVID, they had a pretty thriving economy. Donald Trump was president. Now you can bring an economist in to say Donald Trump inherited a great economy from Barack Obama. Maybe the Trump tax cuts juiced it up a little bit more. They also increase the deficit. But we're not here for an economic debate. We're here to talk politics and how people think. And that's how they think that the economy under Trump was good. My interest rates were low. The interest rates are high now. They can't move up. Inflation was not this high. I could afford my groceries. So there is this nostalgia for the pre-COVID Trump economy. We've heard that everywhere. But you hear it more and more here. And so without a doubt, particularly among Latino males, this is a much tighter competition that it has been in recent election cycles. And because of the math, very, very close state, very high percentage of Latino voters, that's fascinating. And it's huge and it's impactful. And so the challenge for Harris, you know, she has an avenue an opening. If she can present herself as a candidate of change especially on the economy. But unless and until she does that you could see it when we were there, you could feel it when we were there, she is in a fierce competition for voters who in the previous several elections have been not automatic, not automatic Democratic votes, but near automatic.
One thing that was interesting from all of the voters we kind of spoke to in Nevada was their friends, who maybe our voters were, whether they were leaning towards Harris or what. But they've heard from a lot of their Latino friends that whether it be from the economy mostly, or anything else, they're leaning Trump.
There is no question that Trump's tone about immigrants, offends is way too polite of a word, when you talk to people who either are immigrants, who are first generation Americans, whose parents were immigrants, and who are, as you know, sort of surrounded every day by people who come from somewhere else. And yet you made the important point. So many of them say they might vote for him. So what does that tell you? It tells you they're hurting. It tells you economically they're hurting. And one of the things that we have learned in our travels, and you hear it especially from people who are offended by Trump's tone, a lot of them say, I know it's coming now, I will figure out a way to block it out. I won't listen to that part, but I'll get this part. And if this part is a better economy, they're willing to vote for him even though he drives them nuts.
'It also tells you that as much as Harris has improved the standing of the Democrats once Biden switches to Harris, the standing is better. There's a lot of energy for Harris, though. You know, I don't want to underestimate that. There's a lot of energy for Harris. She's in play. But to get over the finish line, she has to convince people on the economy. She's very competitive. She may well win. But the reason we are in this incredibly close, unprecedentedly close race nationally and a literally 50-50 race in Nevada is because she has not convinced people to trust her on the economy. They trust Trump more on the economy. And that has been their life for the past five years. Economic toughness, economic anxiety, economic pain, economic worry. And they want it to end. And that's why their vote for president will be for the person they think will and what they feel as quickly as possible. Who will who will get me out of this faster? That's how they're going to pick a president, even if he calls them names that piss them off.
This podcast version of All Over the Map is a CNN Audio production. Our show producers are Grace Walker, Jesse Remedios, and Allie Malloy. Our editor is Graelyn Brashear, and our senior producers are Dan Bloom and Haley Thomas. Dan Dzula is our technical director, and Steve Lickteig is executive producer of CNN Audio. Support from Nikki Robertson, Jacqueline Kalil, Alex Manassari, Robert Mathers, John Dionora, Leni Steinhardt, Jamus Andrest, Nicole Pesaru and Lisa Namerow. Special thanks to Wendy Brundage and Katie Hinman. I'm John King. Thanks for listening.
