Hey, everyone, I'm David Chalian, CNN's political director. And welcome to the CNN Political Briefing.
I stand before you today to proudly announce I am now officially the Democratic nominee. United States.
That's Vice President Kamala Harris at a rally in Pennsylvania this week, appearing for the first time alongside her new running mate.
Like all regular people I grew up with in the heartland, J.D. studied at Yale. Had his career funded by Silicon Valley billionaires and then wrote a bestseller trashing that community. Come on. That's not what middle America is. And I got to tell you, I can't wait to debate the guy.
Governor Tim Walz is a former teacher, former high school football coach, an Army National Guard veteran, which has come in for a bit of controversy. And, of course, he's led the state of Minnesota for the past five and a half years as governor. My CNN colleague and chief national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, was in Philadelphia at that rally and continued on the campaign trail with the Harris Walls ticket this week. He joins me now to discuss the vice president's pick and how this shapes the race going forward. Jeff, thanks so much for joining us.
So we find you today in the Detroit area because that is where the Walls Harris ticket will appear later this evening after debuting in Pennsylvania. And then earlier today on Wednesday in Wisconsin. And so I guess my first question for you is, what are you hearing from the Harris campaign about how they believe this pick and this rollout is going, you know, 24 hours in.
Like the Harris campaign, and really, Democrats across the board seem thrilled with the rollout of Governor Tim Walz. Not only that, they were able to do so basically, on their own terms and on timetable. We pushed that a little bit when we broke the story on Tuesday that she was picking Governor Walz. But look, they had everything largely in place. And the Harris campaign feels good about not only what she's accomplished here, but at the early glimpses of chemistry. And that's what's also always so interesting, just seeing that first moment when top of the ticket sort of meets their, running mate on stage publicly, of course, they had been together backstage and chatting and things, and they had that interview on Sunday. But just seeing them in the first moment, I thought, that is so interesting to sort of dissect.
Especially just two and a half weeks ago, Kamala Harris was in the role of running mate. I mean, you know, she it was, this is not after, you know, a year and a half long campaign and a tough primary season. And then coming to this, this is somebody who just got launched into this position of nominee and had to quickly find herself somebody she had some chemistry with.
Without a doubt. I mean, literally in, 16 days from being a running mate to naming her own. And that is something that, I mean, think of it like a job application. You're finding someone for the job you currently have. So she knew, obviously what she was looking for and she knew perhaps what she was not looking for. And I think that was clear when they walked on stage in Philadelphia. The sound in that room. Good evening, miss. My eyes would have been closed and not sort of looking where I was. I would have not necessarily thought I was at a Democratic campaign rally for 2024, because I have not seen the excitement or heard that sound at a Joe Biden rally. It was just different than that. But I think just watching them to see the body language, are they going to hug or are they going to shake hands? Both. They did. That was interesting. But of course it gets to the substance of the matter. And I think you could sort of see one of the reasons that the vice president chose Governor Walz. She liked a lot of his progressive policy ideas, and she likes the rest of his biography that she thinks, perhaps is an antidote for some claims that she's a San Francisco liberal.
Well, I guess the Republicans would say, though, she's kind of doubling down on the far left liberal, not the San Francisco piece, obviously. He's, from the middle of the country, but that notion of, you know, did a progressive who was already going to be portrayed as, an out of the mainstream liberal, just pick another progressive out of the mainstream liberal. And does that present the ticket a problem heading into the fall?
We'll find out. I mean, as much as we talked about the race has been on to define Vice President Kamala Harris, the race is on to define Governor Tim Walz. And there's no doubt he and he has defended his progressive policies and laws that he signed into law, largely in his second term as governor, because his first term as governor, he was still dealing with a divided legislature. Republicans controlled one chamber of the House. But look, he's signed a raft of progressive, bills into law. He defends them in such a way in, like, a folksy, plainspoken, Minnesotan manner. And I think that Democrats believe that that will be sort of reassuring, but we will absolutely find out. I mean, this is now just watching Senator JD Vance, who was in Michigan and heading to Wisconsin. He is shadowing them quite literally. His attacks on them is being out of step in a liberal. And Donald Trump is doing the same from a Fox studio in New York. We shall see where that goes. But I think that Governor Walz is a little bit more complicated to sort of put in that, liberal or to paint with that liberal brush. He is a little more fulsome than that.
Because of the biography. Right. And my sense was that the Harris team was leaning heavily into the bio piece. They're not running away from these positions that they think are not only progressive and stuff Harris would want to run on, like universal background tracks or enshrining abortion rights into law. Those are broadly popular with the American people as policy positions. So I get that they're not running away from some of that, but it seemed to me, correct me if I'm wrong, they were leaning heavily into his biography.
I mean, no question about it. Him being a football coach, you know, almost 20 years ago has nothing to do with what he would be as vice president. Yet the word coach was something that Vice President Harris used as she sort of introduced him. So there's no doubt leaning into his biography. I'm not sure I've heard a Democratic campaign embrace someone's Nebraska roots or someone growing up on a farm. As much as I heard Vice President Harris say that yesterday.
And while that may resonate specifically with you, Jeff.
Perhaps because I did grow up on a farm, so I'm a little bit attuned to that. But that's kind of my point. I mean, I do not hear a lot. Usually that's not part of this biography. But look, I think there's no doubt they're trying to paint, you know, his whole time as a social studies teacher and you know how he was the head of the Gay Straight Alliance while he was the football coach? And just his whole walk through that, they are we talked a lot about during the run up to who she would choose. Would it be geography, perhaps, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro or biography? I mean, biography no doubt won out, at least in that simplification of this view. They love his biography. But look, his record is going to get closely inspected. And the record to define his record will be as well.
In addition to, as you said, biography over geography here, perhaps you and your colleagues all reported out this great sort of behind the scenes, story of of how this came to be. It also seemed to be a bit of vibes. No.
No doubt about it. I mean, the vice president was looking for someone she had chemistry with. That sounds obvious. Like, no kidding. But I really believe that that was the case because David, as you know, I mean, watching her as we have for years and covering her in talking to many, former and current staff members, she likes to have a good vibe with people she's around and working with. And clearly our reporting showed from what was really a fascinating, Sunday afternoon at the Naval Observatory, where the vice president lives in Washington, had three interviews with, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, and then Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, who was the third person to interview. And just to every person we have talked to about this, they just had a good rapport. And she liked what she heard from him. She liked his easy, comfortable way about himself and authenticity. But David, one thing that was really interesting as we sort of, you know, tried to press and try and, you know, get a sense of what happened in these very private meetings is that Governor Shapiro was asking very detailed questions about if he was vice president, what type of meetings could he be in, how much he would be in the Oval Office, just very specific things about a portfolio. And Governor Walz, I'm told, was basically like, let me know how I can help and was not quite as detailed about that. So look, it is going to take, perhaps history and a bit of hindsight to see exactly what happened in these meetings and see how much ambition played into it versus biography. But there is no doubt that Walz just had a better a rapport and vibe with Harris than others did.
I think it's so interesting that there are sources familiar with the conversations that went on that are willing to tell reporters about the way in which Josh Shapiro, the Pennsylvania governor, was digging in on details of the job. First of all, that seems like a normal thing if you're in a job interview that you kind of want to understand exactly what the role would be, a B when you're doing that job interview with the person who currently holds that job, who I'm sure herself had some questions for the Biden team about what the role would be four years ago when she joined the ticket. And yet that somehow seems to be a detail that's being passed around and put out there as something that was perhaps a touch disqualifying for Shapiro.
It is fascinating, David, and I think, to take a full step back and to look at the whole picture, it is being put out, obviously, to cast Governor Walz in more of a positive light than Governor Shapiro. There is no doubt about it. I think, you know, there are a variety of reasons for that. So, again, history and a little bit of time and more a reporting perhaps in books and other things will shed perhaps some more light on this. But David, I was thinking back to that interview in the summer of 2008, when then Senator Joe Biden, you know, longtime chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, Judiciary Committee and others, was meeting with freshman Senator Barack Obama. And Senator Biden had very detailed questions about what the role was like, and he was not interested in being a number two. He was not interested in this role. And famously, his mother said he should, you know, pursue that position and say, yes. But so, of course, there have always been detailed questions from a running mate. So, look, supporters of Governor Shapiro, a thought that Vice President Harris would have looked stronger by picking someone like Shapiro, someone you know, strong. She was not intimidated by him or at odds with him. We shall see. I mean, Harris obviously brings her own experience to this house. She has viewed her role internally in the Biden White House. And these are things that only they know. Only she knows. So my guess is it was more than just vibe. But I do think that she would not have chosen walls if she did not have that vibe.
Definitely. No doubt about that. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to have a lot more with CNN's Jeff Zeleny in just a moment. Welcome back. We're here with CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny. We're talking about Vice President Kamala Harris's big decision to pick Minnesota Governor Tim Walz as her running mate in this 2024 campaign that has been completely reshaped over the last two and a half weeks. Jeff, I'm curious to get your take on this line that Republicans are trying to sell, that they are breathing a sigh of relief today that her pick was not Josh Shapiro. Do you buy that, or is that just their attempt to sort of sully Walz out of the gate?
I'm not sure I buy all of that, perhaps a little bit in the sense that that did worry Republicans about Pennsylvania. And there are 19 reasons why the 19 electoral votes in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania are so key to winning the race for the white House. But I think that they have found in Walz a longer biography, perhaps a more complicated record to try and turn on its head. So I expect in the coming days and talking to Republicans that there might be a bit of floundering to try and pin him down, much as there really has been about Vice President Harris and not really settled on a square line of attack. Yes, the border, that was one thing that people thought. But then suddenly former President Donald Trump is going after her on really everything but that, you know, making fun of her intellect, making fun of how she spells and pronounces her name a variety of things. So I view the walls around in somewhat similar ways. And talking to some Republicans in Minnesota who are not for a Harris Wall, as they very much want Republicans to win, they believe that walls will be a little bit harder to sort of back into this liberal corner because of what you see. He's very comfortable in his own skin, without question. It's always interesting when a vice presidential candidate picks up the phone camera pointed at them. He was dressed very casually in his car. Hart's. That is who he is. He was not putting that on as sort of a costume. So this is a man clearly very comfortable in his skin. His record is what it is, but it's fascinating. If you look at the whole record, David, and you and I have been around long enough to cover all of this, that fall in 2006 was a very important year for Democrats. Obviously, Nancy Pelosi went on to become speaker because of the Democratic gains that year. But he won in a Republican district.
Yeah, and he won by five points for sure.
Largely by five points. And he ousted an incumbent Republican. And I this is why I agree. I in addition to the comfort in his own skin, he does have the political biography, the political reality to push back on this liberal label. He the 12 years he was in that district in Congress, he couldn't have done that without the support of independents and even some Republicans, given the nature of that district, without question.
'And he likely would not have been elected governor, as well. And again, in his first term as governor, he was not really pushing this progressive agenda. Now, it is interesting to see, you know, perhaps if he had known this was coming and he obviously did not know this was coming, no one knew this was coming, but it would he have a veto to bill, or would he over perhaps not signed one of these super progressive bills? We'll see. But he very much defends the free lunch and abortion rights. And that is something else that I was reminded of standing in the hall in Philadelphia watching him talk about abortion rights and saying, you know, the golden rule, mind your own damn business. There are so many voters. We talked to Republicans and Democrats alike, older voters in particular, younger as well, who think that government has no business in any of this. Even some pro-life voters who identify themselves as such believe that the government should mind their own damn business. I think that is a line that resonates so well. I was also told, as we're doing, reporting for the story, thinking back to, a meeting in March, Vice President Harris had virtually no relationship with Governor Walz beyond the, you know, perfunctory. She visits the state. The governor is there to welcome her. But she visited a Planned Parenthood clinic in March in Saint Paul, Minnesota, the first sitting vice president to do so. And he was there. He was very comfortable with her talking about this. He was talking about it. A former southern president, Biden has been comfortable talking about abortion. This is something that he believes. So that is also was something that she was thinking back to. I'm told in the final hours of her really making this decision, and that's when he did. He was not trying out for the vice presidency. He was simply welcoming her there. And this is where he, has come politically.
Yeah. I mean, it also shows how the politics of abortion have changed over time. No doubt as, as well. But and he brought up in his speech in Philadelphia last night when you were there, about his own family's journey with IVF and their daughter named Hope out of, obviously, a trying time to create a family, of his own. And, that clearly was also, you know, in response to what we've seen, in Alabama, elsewhere around. IVF. Jeff, couple other points that I want to talk to you about. One piece of his record seems to be getting a ton of interest from J.D. Vance, from Republicans broadly, and that is his management. Some would say mismanagement of the unrest following the killing of George Floyd in Minnesota. This would be during his first term as governor. I recall, as I'm sure you do during that time, Tim Walz sort of being under the gun a little bit in press conferences and the like. I'm not sure we've heard a full sort of put it to bed kind of Tim Walz explanation of his thinking and his management in that moment. And that probably is going to need to come here at some point. No.
I think there's no doubt about it. I assume during one of his first interviews that he undoubtedly will do. Perhaps the interviewer will be chosen for this reason. Perhaps this is something he'll want to get out. I think you're absolutely right. The reason this matters, of course, is everyone remembers George Floyd. That was an issue that transcends the borders of Minnesota, obviously, and he does not want those images in that story to be owned by, or created by the Trump Vance campaign. He needs to own this himself. And, David, I was thinking back to that time, obviously, you know, the pandemic was was well underway. The George Floyd death happened in Minnesota or Minneapolis was burning quite literally. And this was clearly a governor from those early news conferences, you know, who was confronting a massive challenge. And I am sure there's no doubt there was a state review of all this and everything was not handled perfectly. We will see how much grace voters are willing to give him on this. But I do think regardless of sort of how this evolves, I would think that this is potentially a decent vulnerability that he would want to get out and try and if not, create the narrative, just try and, sort of explain what was happening in the moment at that time.
Jeffrey, you talked about if you had closed your eyes at that rally last night in Philadelphia, that you might have mistaken as being elsewhere and not at a Democratic political rally, since you haven't heard one like that in quite some time. Obviously, we see the enthusiasm around the Harris and now Harris walls ticket in lots of ways, $36 million raised. The campaign says, in the first 24 hours since the pic was unveiled, the political team in the Harris campaign put out a memo day, citing specifically things they're seeing in those blue wall states, which obviously is very closely tied to putting Walz on the ticket. But, I guess I want to get from you your thought of given all that enthusiasm, given this new shape of the race. He alluded to the fact that he's looking forward to debating JD Vance in his remarks last night. What do you think a Tim Walz versus JD Vance side by side debate kind of looks like? And will that matter in the end? This VP to VP sizing up each other to voters. What do you think?
I think it's hard to imagine that a debate with them really will matter all that much, provided that, both of them hold their own ground and perhaps that neither of them absolutely has a disastrous performance. In the vein of Joe Biden's performance at his debate back at the end of June. But I think it will be fascinating because, look, they do have somewhat similar upbringings in terms of like from, lower middle class, middle class, but different education, without question. And you already heard Governor Walz sort of take a swipe at, Yale and things. I would be surprised if he sort of keeps doing that. But I assume that Governor Walz will be studying aggressively for this test on a debate stage. The format of that may favor someone with more formal debate training, which is probably JD Vance. But just the idea of Governor Walz trying to like, poke holes are really the basic thrust of Hillbilly Elegy, I think will be absolutely fascinating. So it will definitely be must see TV. It'll be incredible to watch. I'm not sure, at the end of the day that it's going to drive many voters, as long as there's not an absolute to collapse from one of the two.
And do we yet know if Tim Walz or Kamala Harris are going to sit for interviews any time soon? Do you have any indication from the campaign that that's on the immediate horizon, or are they trying to get through the convention and then deal with that?
It's a great question, and it's one that, Republicans are asking JD Vance. I was campaigning in Michigan and he was telling voters to, you know, demand that Vice President Harris and Walz sit for interviews. So we will see. I would think that they would have to do interviews, one of them, before the convention. It would seems to me to be a long time between now and August 19th to not have that sort of welling up, but, perhaps it could be a more friendly interview. We shall see. But I think they absolutely will have to take questions. This. Is something that, you know, I'm not sure how much average voters and he ever care about them all that much. I mean, the press obviously is demanding questions, but it is a bit rich that Senator Vance and former President Trump are saying this because President Trump doesn't. He takes questions, but from a very friendly, friendly forum when he was taking them in a different setting in Chicago just a couple weeks ago at the NABJ conference, he did not do so well. So, look, I don't think voters are going to make their decisions by if they're talking to the press or not, but it does help shape the narrative, what you're hiding, your confidence level, etc.. So we'll see.
It's part of the rough and tumble of campaigns that all candidates go through. And so these folks will no doubt, go through it as well. Jeff, thank you so much for your time. Stay safe out there on the trail.
It's my pleasure, David. Thank you.
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