March 23, 2023 - TikTok CEO Shou Chew testifies before Congress

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Shu Jueting, spokesperson for Chinese Ministry of Commerce, said if the US forces a sale of TikTok, they would "firmly oppose it."

If the US forces a sale of TikTok, China’s Commerce Ministry would “firmly oppose it,” Shu Jueting, ministry spokesperson, said Thursday.?

Shu also explained the sale or divestment of TikTok would need to be done in accordance with Chinese laws and regulations because it involves “technology export issues and administrative licensing procedures.”

The Chinese government considers some advanced technology — including content recommendation algorithms — to be critical to its national interest. In December, Chinese officials proposed tightening the rules that govern the sale of that technology to foreign buyers.

As talk of a possible TikTok ban grows louder in Washington, at least one member of Congress stressed that the app is unlikely to go away in the United States.

“I strongly doubt this app will go dark,” Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi told CNN during its primetime special on Thursday. Instead, he said, the app will likely get sold.

Federal officials are currently?demanding the app’s Chinese owners sell their stake in the social media platform, or risk facing a ban of the app.

Rep. Mike Gallagher

The US government cannot ignore TikTok as a potential national security threat, even if efforts to crack down on the company alienate a generation of future voters, Rep. Mike Gallagher told CNN during its primetime special.

“Republicans [and] Democrats agreed this is a threat,” Gallagher, the chair of the House Select Committee on China, told CNN. “So we can’t ignore it just because of concerns about alienating some teenagers on this app.”

“It’s a national security issue,” he said. “We have to deal with it before it’s too late.”

TikTok creators Ashley Renne Nsonwu?and Hannah Williams

TikTok creator Hannah Williams told CNN that she built her business through the app, and now makes some $200,000 a year. A ban would mean a hit to her business, she said.

Williams also stressed how an entire generation of American young people now “live on TikTok,” and don’t want to see it go.

“A lot of our younger community, you know, under 30, they live on TikTok. TikTok is their Google, it’s their Yelp,” she said. “And I think that it’s a really great source for information that a lot of people turn to, and it’s where we build a lot of community and gathering.”

“It’d be a shame to lose it,” Williams said.

Fellow TikTok creator Ashley Renne Nsonwu added that TikTok has also helped people from diverse backgrounds find community. “For people like me, you know, Black and brown people of color, it would be very detrimental to us,” she said of a TikTok ban. “It’s very upsetting for a lot of us, because we rely on these spaces to talk about issues that really matter to us. And now we’re talking about banning that.”

Kara Swisher, host of the "On with Kara Swisher" podcast

Longtime tech journalist Kara Swisher, host of the “On with Kara Swisher” podcast, kicked off the primetime special by telling CNN that a TikTok ban would be a boon for US tech giants, such as Meta’s Facebook and Instagram.

“The fact of the matter is this will help Facebook Reels,” she said of a possible ban, referring to a copycat feature Meta introduced to complete with TikTok. “It will help a lot of other social media sites, primarily Facebook.”

“And that’s one of the issues here again, these legislators should be thinking more broadly across the entire social media spectrum,” Swisher said. She added that some of the issues lawmakers brought up around TikTok, especially surrounding potential harms for teens, “are happening everywhere.”

She continued: “And it’s happening even among adults, I mean, Twitter is no Nirvana garden party, it’s a very toxic place – and so this is a bigger issue that they should be dealing with, but in this case, they’re going to aim at TikTok because of the Chinese government.”

CNN’s primetime special, “Is Time Up for TikTok,” kicks off at 9 p.m. ET. The special will look at the national security concerns for TikTok as well as the popular app’s impacts on younger users — and the efforts of lawmakers and schools to address these issues.

Pay TV subscribers can stream the special live via CNN.com and CNN OTT, and mobile apps under “TV Channels,” or CNNgo where available.

TikTok?Chief Executive Shou Zi Chew testified before a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing entitled "TikTok: How Congress can Safeguard American Data Privacy and Protect Children from Online Harms," as lawmakers scrutinized the Chinese-owned video-sharing app, on Capitol Hill today.

After more than five hours of testimony, we are largely back where we were when the hearing started. US lawmakers remain convinced that TikTok is an urgent threat to national security; TikTok made no new major commitments beyond what it has already promised to do to safeguard user data; and a nationwide ban still seems very much a live possibility.

Few new facts were uncovered in the hearing, but lawmakers took every opportunity to accuse TikTok of actively spying on US users; of failing to moderate content in the way that Douyin, TikTok’s Chinese sister app, does under China’s strict internet censorship regime; and of effectively being an arm of the Chinese government.

TiKTok CEO Shou Chew sought to provide nuanced answers and at times attempted to correct lawmakers on misperceptions about the company and its parent — but those responses were often interpreted as bad-faith evasiveness.

It was, in other words, a textbook congressional grilling of a technology CEO.

In a statement after the hearing, TikTok said its CEO “came prepared to answer questions from Congress, but, unfortunately, the day was dominated by political grandstanding that failed to acknowledge the real solutions already underway.”

If there was any progress made on Thursday, it was reflected in the breadth of support lawmakers showed for a comprehensive, bipartisan privacy proposal that would create the nation’s first-ever federal privacy right?—?a years-long dream of privacy advocates.

Such a law would govern all businesses’ handling of American data in the United States, covering not just TikTok but also other social media companies, data brokers and more. A comprehensive federal privacy law, many members of the panel said, is the only way to ensure the long-term safety of Americans’ personal information.

Gen Z is the first generation to truly grow up online and now they’re joining the fight to log off. In February, college student and founder of the Log Off Movement, Emma Lembke, testified in front of a Senate committee about the impact that social media companies have on youth mental health.

Lembke is one of many activists, including parents and politicians from both sides of the aisle, calling for increased government regulation of social media companies. Dr. Sanjay Gupta talks with CNN Technology Reporter Brian Fung about a Supreme Court case that could open those companies to more lawsuits. Plus, we dive into what we actually know about the privacy concerns surrounding TikTok and if a nationwide ban is possible.

Click here to listen to this episode of Chasing Life

Also, Jen Easterly, the director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, talks to David Axelrod about the cyber threats from Russia and China, the potential downsides of A.I. and TikTok, and why cybersecurity needs to be a collaborative effort.

Click here to listen to this episode of the Axe Files

After more than five hours, the hearing has officially wrapped.

Two polls released this week find more public support than opposition for a US government ban on the app — although younger Americans and frequent TikTok users are against such a ban.

Among Americans who’ve heard of TikTok, 61% favor the US government banning the app, with 39% opposed, according to?a CBS News/YouGov poll released Thursday. The vast majority of the public, more than 9 in 10, say they’ve heard or read at least something about the app.

Views vary sharply by age. Among those who’ve heard of TikTok, these are the percentages of people who say they are in favor of banning the app:

There’s less of a partisan divide, with 70% of Republicans, 60% of Democrats and 58% of independents who’ve heard of TikTok all favoring a ban.

Among Americans who’ve heard about TikTok, 56% consider its ties to China a national security risk, with 22% saying that TikTok’s parent company being based in China does not present such a risk and the remainder unsure.

In?a Washington Post poll?also released this week, a majority also favored banning TikTok in the US – 41% in support to 25% opposed, with about one-third (34%) not sure, although a 54% majority of daily TikTok users said they did not want to see the app banned.

A majority of Americans (71%) in the Washington Post poll said they were at least somewhat concerned that TikTok’s parent company is based in China, with majorities also saying it was likely that TikTok is allowing the spread of false information (73%) and harming teens’ mental health (72%).

But only about one-third, 34%, said they believed TikTok collected more personal data than other social media apps do, with more (43%) saying it collected about the same amount of data as other apps, and 21% not sure.

U.S. Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy at the U.S. Capitol building on March 10.

House Speaker Kevin McCarthy said Wednesday he supports legislation that would effectively ban TikTok in the United States, the clearest sign yet of the growing momentum on Capitol Hill to outlaw the popular social media app.?

“I don’t know that we have to give the president the authority. I think maybe we may be able to do it ourselves and I’ll let it work in the House,” he told CNN’s Manu Raju.?

Asked if he would support a congressional ban on the app, McCarthy responded; “Yes.”

“I think you see a bipartisan concern here with what’s happening on TikTok especially what’s happening to the data for Americans … there’s many different ramifications here so I think they could come together. I’d let the committees do their work and see if the product comes out when it gets done,” McCarthy said of potential legislation, and did not give any timeline.?

TikTok CEO Shou Chew addressed reports that TikTok uses keylogging, a method by which an app or program monitors the keyboard entries of users.

“We do not engage in keystroke logging to monitor what users say,” Chew said. “It’s to identify bots. It’s for security purposes, and this is a standard industry practice.”

Privacy experts have confirmed that keylogging is indeed widespread among websites and that the technique is not inherently malicious, but can potentially lead to user data being collected when users type in sensitive personal information into websites they visit.

The fact that keylogging is a common industry practice does not necessarily excuse TikTok, but it highlights privacy advocates’ broad concerns about the use of keylogging more generally and underscores calls for stronger privacy laws for all companies.

The House Committee for Energy and Commerce, where TikTok CEO Shou Chew is testifying, is now in recess.

TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew leaves as the House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing on "TikTok: How Congress Can Safeguard American Data Privacy and Protect Children from Online Harms," calls for a recess on March 23.

Even before his first Congressional appearance was over, at least one industry watcher was quick to pan the TikTok CEO’s performance as a failure.

“We would characterize today’s testimony by TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew in the Beltway as a ‘disaster’ moment,” Dan Ives, an analyst at Wedbush, wrote in a note Thursday as the hearing was still underway.

Ives said Chew’s performance “will likely catalyze more calls by lawmakers and the White House to look to ban TikTok within the US if the company does not look to spin-off and force a sale from Chinese parent ByteDance.”

Chew faced intense skepticism from lawmakers about his company’s efforts to wall off US user data and address Washington’s concerns about TikTok’s ties to China.

“Chew walked a tight rope in answering the questions with a lot more uncertainty around the walled off data and comfort that China does not have access to TikTok’s 150 million US consumers data,” Ive said. “In our opinion, the odds were stacked against Chew heading into today.”

A multi-agency government panel on Thursday vowed to clamp down on data security risks stemming from foreign-linked business activity, as TikTok’s CEO sought to stave off a nationwide ban during a three-hour-long congressional hearing.

The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, which is charged with reviewing foreign investment deals for national security implications, did not address or name TikTok specifically.

But in a statement, the Treasury Department — the US agency that chairs CFIUS —?warned that it “will not clear any transaction unless it determines there are no unresolved national security concerns.”

“Broadly speaking, some transactions can present data security risks — including providing a foreign person or government with access to troves of Americans’ sensitive personal data as well as access to intellectual property, source code, or other potentially sensitive information,” a Department spokesperson said. “CFIUS, on a case-by-case basis, will ensure the protection of national security, including to prevent the misuse of data through espionage, tracking, and other means that threaten national security.”

For more than two years, CFIUS and TikTok have been negotiating on a possible deal that might address US security concerns and allow the app to continue operating in the United States.

That lengthy process has prompted lawmakers to pressure the Biden administration to hurry up, and some have introduced legislation to ban TikTok. Since then, CFIUS has threatened TikTok with a ban unless the company’s Chinese owners sell their shares in the company.

TikTok CEO Shou Chew said that what US officials fear — Chinese government access to TikTok’s user data —?is a hypothetical scenario that has not been proven.

“How can all of the countries [that have banned TikTok on government devices] and our own FBI director have been wrong?” asked Rep. Debbie Lesko.

“I think a lot of risks that are pointed out are hypothetical and theoretical risks,” Chew said. “I have not seen any evidence. I am eagerly awaiting discussions where we can talk about evidence and then we can address the concerns that are being raised.”

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on March 22.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Thursday said TikTok should be “ended one way or another,” but noted “there are different ways of doing that.”

Speaking at a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing, Blinken said he did not know if it would be sufficient for TikTok to be divested from its Chinese parent company.

The top US diplomat said he believed the app is a threat to US national security, but would not outright say that it should be banned. He noted that it has been prohibited for use by US Embassy contractors and third party vendors.

“Clearly, we, the administration and others are seized with the challenge that it poses and are taking action to address it,” he said.

TikTok?Chief Executive Shou Zi Chew testifying before a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing on Capitol Hill in Washington, today.

When asked about election misinformation, TikTok CEO Shou Chew stressed that the platform takes the issue seriously, and highlighted that the app does not do political ads.

“We are the only platform that I know of that doesn’t actually take political ads. We don’t accept money. I don’t think other platforms can say that,” he told Democratic Rep. Marc Veasey, the co-chair of the Congressional Voting Rights Caucus.

Veasey had expressed concerns about China using the power of TikTok’s reach around the world “to influence public opinion and undermine the integrity of our democratic elections.”

However, when he cited reports saying that TikTok approved 90% of the false political ads targeted at young US voters that researchers tested on the platform, Chew said he would need to review the report given TikTok’s policy on election misinformation and political ads.

“We do take dangerous misinformation, particularly around an election, very seriously,” Chew added.

A TikTok ban is far from a certainty despite bipartisan bluster at today’s hearing. But if it were to be banned, Snapchat could be the biggest beneficiary.

Moody’s analyst Emile El Nems said in a note to investors Thursday that YouTube, Instagram and Snap would benefit from a TikTok ban, each gaining a higher share of the advertising market.

But Snap would be the biggest winner.

“Given the revenue scale of YouTube and Instagram, the TikTok ban creates a smaller revenue opportunity, but it could be materially positive for Snap,” said El Nems.

Snap’s stock surged earlier this month after Congress renewed efforts to ban TikTok. Shares of Snap were up 4% in trading Thursday as the hearing got underway.

TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew during a hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, on the platform's consumer privacy and data security practices and impact on children, on March 23, on Capitol Hill in Washington.

TikTok CEO Shou Chew told lawmakers the company does not currently sell user data to commercial data brokers, but under questioning from Rep. Debbie Dingell, he could not commit that the company would never sell user data.

“There are certain members of our industry who do this,” he said. “I think there has to be broad legislation to help us, the whole industry, address this problem.”

Asked whether TikTok has provided precise geolocation data to the Chinese government, or inferences drawn from that data, Chew appeared relieved.

“That I can give you a straight answer on,” he said. “No.”

TikTok?Chief Executive Shou Zi Chew reacts during a session for him to testify before a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing entitled "TikTok: How Congress can Safeguard American Data Privacy and Protect Children from Online Harms," as lawmakers scrutinize the Chinese-owned video-sharing app, on Capitol Hill today.

Rep. Tony Cárdenas tweaked Chew about some of his answers that were not directly responsive to lawmakers questions, comparing him to Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, who in his own testimony has also frustrated members of Congress.

“You have been one of the few people to unite this committee,” Cárdenas told Chew. “You remind me a lot of Mark Zuckerberg. When he came here, I said to my staff, ‘He reminds me of Fred Astaire —?good dancer with words.’ And you dare doing the same today. A lot of your answers are a bit nebulous; they’re not yes or no.”

Moments later, Cárdenas tried to pin Chew down on whether ByteDance is a “Chinese company.”

As TikTok has testified, ByteDance is a private company, 60% held by global institutional investors including Blackrock, Sequoia and General Atlantic; 20% by employees; and 20% by its Chinese owners. Chew tried to explain that breakdown to Cárdenas but the response was received as evasion.

The House committee is back from its recess. California Rep. Tony Cardenas is next.

Pedestrians walk past the Elizabeth Tower at the Houses of Parliament in central London, UK, on October 11, 2022.?

Britain’s parliament has banned TikTok on all lawmakers’ official devices and the “wider parliamentary network,”?citing concerns over cybersecurity.?

The ban applies to all networks and devices associated with both the House of Common and the House of Lords and comes after an edict last week banning the Chinese video sharing app from the devices of all civil servants.

“Following the Government’s decision to ban TikTok from government devices, the Commissions of both the House of Commons and Lords have decided that TikTok will be blocked from all parliamentary devices and the wider parliamentary network,”?a UK parliament spokesperson said.?

“Cyber security is a top priority for Parliament,” the spokesperson said, adding “however we do not comment on specific details of our cyber or physical security controls, policies or incidents.”??

Scotland also followed suit prohibiting TikTok on official Scottish Government devices Thursday following discussions with the British government on the “potential tracking and privacy risks from certain social media apps,” Deputy First Minister John Swinney said in a statement.

“Devices managed by the Scottish Government are configured in line with best practice from the National Cyber Security Centre, which helps us to manage any risk associated with the use of third-party applications.”?Neither ban extends to personal devices used by staff.

TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew takes questions from Rep. Kat Cammack (R-FL) before the House Energy and Commerce Committee in the Rayburn House Office Building on Capitol Hill on March 23 in Washington, DC. The hearing was a rare opportunity for lawmakers to question the leader of the short-form social media video app about the company's relationship with its Chinese owner, ByteDance, and how they handle users' sensitive personal data.

We’re about halfway through what Rep. McMorris Rodgers has said could be a 4.5-hour hearing. Here’s where things stand.

Lawmakers are almost universally hostile toward TikTok, and not buying what the company is selling. It was almost certainly always going to turn out this way, but the outcome does not leave TikTok on much firmer ground in the face of a possible US ban.

Members on the panel have hammered away at TikTok’s ties to China and disregarded CEO Shou Chew’s on-record, under-oath claims that TikTok is not an arm of the Chinese government. They have also blasted TikTok for its data collection practices and its handling of dangerous or offensive content.

Chew has gamely tried to provide nuanced answers to lawmaker questions but in many situations his cautiousness has come off as evasiveness, particularly in response to yes-no questions that are meant to appear tough on TikTok but that in reality have forced Chew to either risk of A) providing a contextless answer for which he could later be accused of lying or misleading the public; or B) give no answer or a non-responsive answer.

The House Committee for Energy and Commerce is taking a 10-minute break.

Rep. Gus Bilirakis speaking to TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew?during today's hearing.

While much of the hearing focused on national security concerns, several lawmakers pressed TikTok’s CEO on the platform’s potential to harm younger users.

Republican Rep. Gus Bilirakis said there is a lack of adequate content moderation, which leaves room for kids to be exposed to content that promotes self harm.

Citing examples of harmful content served to children, he said, “it is unacceptable, sir, that even after knowing all these dangers, you still claim that TikTok is something grand to behold.”

“Would you share this content with your two children?” Bilirakis added.

TikTok has launched a number of features in recent months to provide additional safeguards for younger users, including setting a new 60-minute default for daily time limit for those under the age of 18.

The Florida congressman called for lawmakers to enact a comprehensive privacy and data security law to “give Americans more control over their information.”

The Capitol is seen through a doorway in the Russell Senate Office Building in Washington on March 15.

Democratic Sen. Mark Warner, the lead sponsor of the RESTRICT Act aimed at TikTok and other possible national security risks in technology, told CNN that Thursday’s hearing in the House with TikTok leadership will help their bill advance.?

“I think after today’s hearing, particularly on the House Republican side, there’s going to be some additional conversations,” said Warner.?

He added: “I think there’s a great deal of interest from Senate leadership. I think we need to show a broad bipartisan House effort as well.”

The lead Republican co-sponsor, Sen. John Thune, said they don’t have “definitive” timing from Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer on a floor vote, although “he’s interested in seeing it advance.”?

Warner pointed out that concern over the national security risks of TikTok “is one of the areas that is truly bipartisan, and there’s interest from both the House and the Senate.”?

However, both Warner and Thune acknowledged that they have encountered some pushback from TikTok’s creators and from those who want to ban the app immediately.?

“There are some folks who don’t want to hear about national security concerns, and clearly there’s a lot of folks who make money off of it as social influencers. I think the market will provide them another venue, another app,” said Warner.?

Thune said: “There are folks obviously who want to do something immediately and ban TikTok right away, which, frankly, would be fine by me too. But that’s been tried, and it’s been thrown out in the court.”

“I just think that in terms of getting a solution here, and a solution in place quickly, our legislation represents the best possible way of getting that done,” he added.

TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew testifies before the House Energy and Commerce Committee in the Rayburn House Office Building on Capitol Hill on March 23.

TikTok’s effort to address Washington’s security concerns by walling off US user data from China was met with skepticism from lawmakers at the hearing on Thursday.

“I still believe that the Beijing communist government will still control and have the ability to influence what you do,” Democratic Rep. Frank Pallone said of the company’s effort, known as Project Texas.

Republican Rep. Bob Latta enquired about whether any China-based employees of the company have access to US users’ data. In response, TikTok CEO Shou Chew said, “After Project Texas is done, the answer is no.”

However, Latta leaned on Pallone’s opinion of the project not being useful, implying that he does not accept the effort as an acceptable solution.

What is Project Texas: TikTok has been erecting technical and organizational barriers that it says will keep US user data safe from unauthorized access. Under the plan, known as Project Texas, the US government and third-party companies such as Oracle would also have some degree of oversight of TikTok’s data practices. TikTok is working on a similar plan for the European Union known as Project Clover.

But that hasn’t assuaged the doubts of US officials, likely because no matter what TikTok does internally, China would still theoretically have leverage over TikTok’s Chinese owners. Exactly what that implies is ambiguous, and because it is ambiguous, it is unsettling.

TikTok Chief Executive Shou Zi Chew testifying before a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing on Capitol Hill today.

TikTok CEO Shou Chew’s claims that the company is not an arm of the Chinese government appears to be going unheeded by US lawmakers, as numerous members of Congress have interrupted the chief executive’s testimony to say they simply don’t believe him.

“To the American people watching today, hear this: TikTok is a weapon by the Chinese Communist Party to spy on you, manipulate what you see and exploit for future generations,” said Rep. McMorris Rodgers.

In an exchange with Rep. Anna Eshoo, Chew tried to say that TikTok’s Project Texas would protect US user data. He added: “I have seen no evidence that the Chinese government has access to that data; they have never asked us, we have not provided it.”

“I find that actually preposterous,” Eshoo fired back.

“I have looked in —?and I have seen no evidence of this happening,” Chew responded. “Our commitment is to move their data into the United States, to be stored on American soil by an American company, overseen by American personnel. So the risk would be similar to any government going to an American company, asking for data.”

“I don’t believe that TikTok — that you have said or done anything to convince us,” Eshoo said.

Perhaps no exchange sums up Thursday’s hearing like a moment following Rep. Kat Cammack’s lengthy critique of TikTok’s content moderation and links to China.

“Can I respond, Chair?” Chew asked McMorris Rodgers after Cammack’s time was up.

McMorris Rodgers considered Chew for a brief moment.

“No. We’re going to move on,” she said.

TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew on March 23 before the House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing on "TikTok: How Congress Can Safeguard American Data Privacy and Protect Children from Online Harms," on Capitol Hill.

TikTok CEO Shou Chew was asked several times by Congressman Frank Pallone if he can commit to not collecting any health or location data.

Some background: In 2020,?The Washington Post?worked with a privacy researcher to look under the hood at TikTok, concluding that the?app does not appear to collect any more data?than your typical mainstream social network. The following year, Pellaeon Lin, a Taiwan-based researcher at the University of Toronto’s Citizen Lab, performed?another technical analysis?that reached similar conclusions.

But even if TikTok collects about the same amount of information as Facebook or Twitter, that’s still quite a lot of data, including information about the videos you watch, comments you write, private messages you send, and — if you agree to grant this level of access — your exact geolocation and contact lists.

The House Energy and Commerce Committee, as TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew testifies, in the Rayburn House Office Building on Capitol Hill on March 23.

The top Republican and Democrat on the committee have taken multiple opportunities already to plug their bipartisan privacy proposal that would create the nation’s first federal privacy right for US citizens.

Rep. McMorris Rodgers said that a ban on TikTok would only be a short-term solution and that “a data privacy bill is the only way to stop TikTok from ever happening again in the United States.”

Pallone sought to extract commitments of support from Chew, asking him to endorse specific parts of the proposed law such as a ban on targeted ads for Americans under 17 years of age and a ban on the sale of commercial data to third parties.

Chew largely declined to commit to those principles but said that TikTok does not collect precise geolocation data or health data from users, and that TikTok does not collect more information from users than other social media companies.

A visibly frustrated Pallone told Chew that although TikTok was trying to show its good will and that it is distancing itself from the Chinese government, Chew’s reluctance to endorse the specific legislation was problematic.

“The commitments we would seek to achieve those goals are not being made today,” Pallone said. “You’re going to continue to gather data?…?and continue to be under the aegis of the Communist Party.”

The tense exchange highlighted how, while today’s hearing may be focused on TikTok, committee leaders are seeking to use the concerns about TikTok to drive support for a bill that would apply to the entire tech industry and US economy writ large.

Rep. Frank Pallone.

So far, both the committee’s Republican Chair Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers and Democratic ranking member Rep. Frank Pallone have highlighted the concerns around TikTok’s potential impact on kids.

“Children and teens are particularly vulnerable,” Pallone said. “Frequent online use of interactive media on digital devices is associated with increased levels of depression among middle and high school students. Research has found that TikTok’s algorithms recommend videos to teens that create and exacerbate feelings of emotional distress, including videos promoting suicide, self-harm and eating disorders.”

TikTok’s CEO is attempting to dispel national security concerns about his business by talking about the steps the company has taken to “firewall” US user data from unauthorized access. Will that be enough to persuade lawmakers?

Here’s what we know about the alleged risks.

The overall fear is that the Chinese government could use its national security laws to pressure TikTok’s parent ByteDance and its Chinese employees to provide access to TikTok’s US user data.

Security researchers who’ve looked under the hood at TikTok have found that TikTok doesn’t currently appear to be spying or engaging in any overt malicious behavior. They also say TikTok appears to collect the same amount of data that other mainstream social networks do. In that respect, TikTok is no more a national security threat than Facebook or YouTube.

The national security issue is primarily concentrated in TikTok’s ownership and governance. In other words, the fear is less about TikTok’s technical capabilities to track users, and more about the possibility that Beijing could exercise influence over TikTok, however indirect.

TikTok has argued that ByteDance was founded by Chinese nationals but that its ownership is largely not concentrated in China. Sixty percent of the company is owned by global institutional investors, 20% by the company’s employees and 20% by the company’s Chinese founder.

But US officials fear that due to China’s national security laws that require people and organizations in the country to cooperate with state intelligence work, even a minority stake could give the Chinese government leverage over ByteDance and, in turn, TikTok.

Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, the chair of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, opened Thursday’s hearing by tearing into TikTok.

“We do not trust TikTok to ever embrace American values, values for freedom, human rights and innovation,” McMorris Rodgers said.

Addressing CEO Shou Chew, McMorris Rodgers said: “Your platform should be banned. I expect today you’ll say anything to avoid this outcome…. We aren’t buying it. In fact, when you celebrate the 150 million American users on TikTok, it emphasizes the urgency for Congress to act. That is 150 million Americans that the [Chinese Communist Party] can collect sensitive information on.”

The House Committee on Energy and Commerce hearing with TikTok CEO Shou Chew has started.

Here’s Chew’s prepared remarks in full as posted by the committee ahead of the hearing.

TikTok?Chief Executive Shou Zi Chew is pictured today before testifying before a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing entitled "TikTok: How Congress can Safeguard American Data Privacy and Protect Children from Online Harms," as lawmakers scrutinize the Chinese-owned video-sharing app, on Capitol Hill in Washington.

TikTok CEO Shou Chew plans to tell US lawmakers that the app’s parent company, ByteDance, does not work for the Chinese government as he seeks to avert a US ban and reassure policymakers TikTok poses no national security threat.

“Let me state this unequivocally,” Chew will say, according to a copy of his remarks released by a key House panel. “ByteDance is not an agent of China or any other country.”?

In his written remarks, which span nearly a dozen pages, Chew will include broad promises to protect US user data, to keep teens safe and to remain free from any government influence, mark the company’s most visible attempt yet to shake off concerns about the potential for foreign spying that have spooked governments worldwide.

Chew will defend ByteDance’s corporate structure and outline steps the company has taken — and plans to take — to resolve fears the Chinese government could gain access to TikTok user data through its potential influence over ByteDance. Among those steps is a vow to “firewall” US user data from “unauthorized foreign access.”

ByteDance was founded by Chinese nationals but their shares now represent only 20% of the company’s overall private ownership, according to Chew’s testimony, with the rest comprised of employee stock and global institutional investors such as Blackrock and Sequoia.?

As part of a $1.5 billion security overhaul known as Project Texas, TikTok last month began deleting US user data from its proprietary servers based in Singapore and Virginia, Chew will say. The deletion process is expected to wrap up later this year.?“Under this structure, there is no way for the Chinese government to access it or compel access to it,” Chew will say.

New TikTok data created by US users is already being stored on cloud-based servers operated by the US tech giant Oracle, a change that took effect last month, according to the testimony.?A recently formed TikTok subsidiary known as US Data Security?will be solely responsible for handling Americans’ personal information going forward, Chew will say.?USDS already has nearly 1,500 full-time employees and the company plans to hire more.?

TikTok was the top downloaded app in the United States in 2021 and 2022, according to data from analytics firm Sensor Tower. It now drives culinary habits (including a?200% jump in Feta sales?at one grocery store after a baked pasta dish went viral); countless fashion and beauty crazes (from?“skin cycling”?to?“glazed donut nails”), and propels new and old music (including the 1980s?song “Break My Stride”) to the top of streaming charts.

A significant percentage of US politicians campaigned on the app ahead of the midterm elections last year. And legacy news organizations like the 176-year-old Associated Press have recently joined TikTok to reach new audiences.

So as?lawmakers have renewed calls?for tougher action to be taken with the app, some of its users who have built their livelihoods and found a sense of community on the app say they can’t imagine an America without it.

Callie Goodwin, of Columbia, South Carolina, posted her first video on the app to promote the small business she had started out of her garage during the pandemic.

Callie Goodwin.

Inspired by a neighbor dropping off some brownies and a handwritten note for her while she was in quarantine, Goodwin decided to launch a pre-stamped greeting cards company called?Sparks of Joy Co.?A few months later, a TikTok influencer with some two million followers shared one of Goodwin’s cards on her account and Goodwin saw her business take off.

Kahlil Greene, of New Haven, Connecticut: Known as the?“Gen Z historian”?across social media, he has amassed more than 580,000 followers on TikTok by documenting social and cultural issues. Greene’s following on TikTok even garnered the attention of the Biden administration. Greene was among the handful of TikTokers who were?recently invited to a White House press briefing?on the Russian invasion of Ukraine. “So much of our culture and lives are driven by TikTok now that it’s not just something you can rip away easily,” he said.

Kahlil Greene.

At a time when major tech giants including Meta and Twitter are slashing staff, TikTok?is still hiring American engineers. TikTok also appears be to taking aim at a chunk of Amazon’s e-commerce empire by seeking to build out its own warehousing network in the United States,?a flurry of recent job postings indicates.

The challenge for the federal government “is it’s almost like TikTok is too big to fail,” said Rick Sofield, a partner at Vinson & Elkins L.L.P., who focuses on national security reviews, export controls and economic sanctions. “I think their minds are made up that ByteDance owning TikTok is a national security concern – the reason that we’ve been hung up is it’s too big to fail, and they’re trying to figure out a soft landing.”

Adrianna Wise, from Columbus, Ohio: TikTok hasn’t just been “essential” for building her bakery, it’s also been a critical tool that lets her reach young Black and brown people in her community and share knowledge and tips on how to build a business.

Adrianna Wise.

“I see the impact that I’m having when I go out into the community and people are like, ‘Oh my gosh, I follow you TikTok,’” Wise, who is co-founder of Coco’s Confectionary Kitchen, told CNN. “I had a little girl a few weeks ago tell me, ‘It was just so cool because you have hair like me, and you’re on TikTok and you have so many views!’”

Hootie Hurley, a Los Angeles-based full-time creator with more than 1.3 million followers on TikTok, told CNN that he now makes most of his income through his TikTok following.

Hootie Hurley.

While a ban would be “very scary” for him and his livelihood, Hurley said he and other TikTok creators are more focused on entertaining their audience than stressing about it – especially after weathering the first ban threats back in 2020.

“If the government ever did ban it,” he said, “everybody would actually be very, very surprised.”

Democratic Representative Debbie Dingell.

One of the members of Congress who will grill the TikTok CEO today told CNN that she has “real concerns” about how much data China already has on Americans through TikTok.?

Speaking to Julia Chatterley ahead of the hearing, Democratic Representative Debbie Dingell said, “All of us, I don’t care if you are Republican or Democrat, are very concerned about the kind of data that China already has through accessing TikTok.”

She added that there was a “real problem” with privacy in the US and around the world with social media apps.?

The download page for ByteDance Ltd.'s Douyin application on a smartphone in Beijing, China, in May 2021.

As part of its case to distance itself from China, TikTok has said it does not operate in that country or offer its app to Chinese users.

That has raised questions about the difference between what TikTok users see in their feeds and what Chinese users see on Douyin, the local equivalent of TikTok from the same parent company, ByteDance.

Some public reports have suggested that content on Douyin is more educational and achievement-focused than what TikTok users tend to receive.

TikTok took a step in that direction earlier this month, announcing a third feed that would recommend science, technology, engineering and math content.

Security researchers who’ve studied both apps say that while TikTok and Douyin may offer different features, the underlying software is very similar, suggesting they are both developed from the same code base and tailored separately for specific markets.

?U.S. Rep. Jamaal Bowman (D-NY) speaks as Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI), Rep. Robert Garcia (D-CA) and supporters of TikTok listen during a news conference on March 22, in Washington, DC. TikTok CEO Shou Chew will testify before the House Energy and Commerce Committee tomorrow on whether the video-sharing app is safeguarding user data on the platform.

Some TikTok creators spoke out against a potential US ban of the app in a news conference on Wednesday evening hosted by Rep. Jamaal Bowman, a Democrat from New York.

Standing in front of dozens of TikTok creators on Capitol grounds, Bowman called the attacks on TikTok unfair and defended how the app promotes free speech and community-building among Americans from diverse backgrounds. He called for “comprehensive legislation” that targets all social media platforms, not just TikTok.

“Let’s not be racist towards China and express our xenophobia when it comes to TikTok,” Bowman said, “because American companies have done tremendous harm to American people.”

Bowman was joined at the conference by fellow Democratic Reps. Mark Pocan of Wisconsin and Robert Garcia of California, as well the TikTok creators, some of whom TikTok may have flown in to Washington.

One of the creators, disability advocate Tiffany Yu, said that TikTok was what allowed her advocacy work to take off. “TikTok has really been a game-changer for me,” Yu said. “It’s allowed me to reach new audiences, millions of people, unlock new ways to generate income to support my advocacy and empower an entire group of disability advocates to find their voice and build their careers.”

Yu added that TikTok has allowed her to secure “six figures of creator income” and that she now has a book coming out in 2024. “So to Congress, I urge you to consider the impact that a ban on TikTok would have on advocates like myself,” she said. “A ban takes away the connections we’ve built, silencing communities that continue to be underrepresented and not given a voice.”

A TikTok booth at the 2021 Hangzhou International E-commerce Expo in Hangzhou, east China's Zhejiang Province, in October 2021.

TikTok acknowledged to CNN that federal officials are?demanding the app’s Chinese owners sell their stake?in the social media platform, or risk facing a US ban of the app.

The new directive comes from the multiagency Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS), following years of negotiations between TikTok and the government body. (CFIUS is the same group that previously forced a?sale of LGBTQ dating app Grindr?from Chinese ownership back in 2019.)

The ultimatum from the US government represents an apparent escalation in pressure from Washington as more lawmakers once again raise national security concerns about the app. Suddenly, TikTok’s future in the United States appears more uncertain – but this time, it comes after years in which the app has only?broadened its reach over American culture.

Here’s what you should know.

Some in Washington have expressed concerns that the app could be infiltrated by the Chinese government to essentially spy on American users or gain access to US user data. Others have raised alarms over the possibility that the Chinese government could use the app to spread propaganda to a US audience. At the heart of both is an underlying concern that any company doing business in China ultimately falls under Chinese Communist Party laws. Other concerns raised are not unique to TikTok, but more broadly about the potential for social media platforms to lead younger users down harmful rabbit holes.

This echoes the saga TikTok already went through in the United States that kicked off in 2020, when the Trump administration first threatened it with a ban via executive order if it didn’t sell itself to a US-based company. Oracle and Walmart?were suggested as buyers, social media?creators were in a frenzy,?and TikTok kicked off a?lengthy legal battle?against the US government. Some critics at the time blasted then-president Donald Trump’s crusade against the app as political theater rooted in xenophobia, calling out Trump’s unusual suggestion that the United States?should get a “cut” of any deal?if it forced the app’s sale to an American firm.

The Biden administration eventually rescinded the Trump-era executive order targeting TikTok, but replaced it with a broader directive focused on investigating technology linked to foreign adversaries, including China. Meanwhile, CFIUS continued negotiations to strike a possible deal that would allow the app to continue operating in the United States. Then scrutiny began to kick up again in Washington.

Lawmakers renewed their scrutiny of TikTok for its ties to China through its parent company, ByteDance, after a?report?last year suggested US user data had been repeatedly accessed by China-based employees. TikTok has disputed the report.

TikTok CEO Shou Chew responds: “The Chinese government has actually never asked us for US user data,” Chew said in rare remarks at a Harvard Business Review conference. “and we’ve said this on the record, that even if we where asked for that, we will not provide that.” Chew added that “all US user data is stored, by default, in the Oracle Cloud infrastructure” and “access to that data is completely controlled by US personnel.”

As for the concerns that the Chinese government might use the app to spew propaganda to a US audience, Chew emphasized that this would be bad for business, noting that some 60% of TikTok’s owners are global investors. “Misinformation and propaganda has no place on our platform, and our users do not expect that,” he said.

A growing number of countries have banned TikTok from official government devices:

The United States: More than half of all US states have partially or fully banned TikTok from government devices, according to a CNN analysis, reflecting a wave of recent clampdowns by governors and state agencies targeting the short-form video app.

The United Kingdom: The social media app is not widely used by UK officials, according to a government?announcement. “This is a proportionate move based on a specific risk with government devices,” UK Cabinet Office Minister Oliver Dowden told lawmakers Thursday.

Canada: The ban is set to take effect on Tuesday. Government-issued devices will be blocked from downloading TikTok, and existing installations of the app will be removed, according to a?statement?by the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat.?“Following a review of TikTok, the Chief Information Officer of Canada determined that it presents an unacceptable level of risk to privacy and security,” the statement said.?

Belgium: After an analysis from the country’s state security VSSE, the national security council has temporarily banned federal government employees from installing TikTok on their devices, according to Belgium Prime Minister Alexander De Croo’s office. “We should not be naive: TikTok is a Chinese company that is now obliged to cooperate with Chinese intelligence services. That is the reality. Banning its use on federal service devices is common sense,” De Croo said in a statement. The ban will last six months after which it will be reassessed, the statement from Belgium’s Prime Minister’s office said.

The Netherlands: The government said its decision follows the advice of AVID, its general intelligence and security service, which states that there is an increased espionage risk. The Dutch Government said in a statement that it is working on facilitating mobile devices set-up in “a way that only pre-approved apps, software and/or functionalities can be installed and used,” adding that exceptions are allowed “when such an application is or may be necessary for the performance of a primary task of a government organization.”

New Zealand: Based on the advice of cyber security experts, TikTok will be removed from all devices (of parliamentary staff and members) that have access to the parliamentary network,?Parliamentary Service Chief Executive Rafael Gonzalez-Montero?said.

The European Union has also done the same: TikTok is banned on official devices over security concerns across all three of the bloc’s main institutions — the European Parliament, the European Commission and the European Council. The parliament also “strongly recommended” to its members and staff to remove TikTok from their personal devices.

India banned TikTok in 2020 as its tensions with China escalated, saying they pose a “threat to sovereignty and integrity.” This move forced ByteDance to lay off some of its workers in the country.

The entrance of ByteDance?office?in?Beijing, China, in July 2020.

The US government has launched a criminal investigation into TikTok’s parent company, ByteDance, over improper access to the personal information of several US citizens, according to?Forbes?and?The New York Times.

News of the investigation, which reportedly involved a subpoena to ByteDance along with a number of interviews by the FBI, comes after TikTok?confirmed in December?that four ByteDance employees had been fired in connection with the incident, following an internal review.

Two of the fired employees had been based in China, and two were based in the United States, TikTok said at the time. Among the TikTok users who were surveilled were two journalists, including the Forbes journalist who on Friday first reported the Department of Justice probe.

The DOJ, FBI and the US attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, who is also reportedly involved in the probe, previously declined to comment. TikTok did not respond to a request for comment.

The surveillance that led to the firings saw ByteDance employees accessing device information such as IP addresses used by the journalists. The?initial reports?about the incident suggested the employees had been hunting for the source of leaks to the press. There is currently no evidence the Chinese government directed or participated in the surveillance.

Multiple privacy and security researchers who’ve examined TikTok’s app say there aren’t any glaring flaws suggesting the app itself is currently spying on people or leaking their information.

In 2020,?The Washington Post?worked with a privacy researcher to look under the hood at TikTok, concluding that the app does not appear to collect any more data than your typical mainstream social network. The following year, Pellaeon Lin, a Taiwan-based researcher at the University of Toronto’s Citizen Lab, performed?another technical analysis?that reached similar conclusions.

But even if TikTok collects about the same amount of information as Facebook or Twitter, that’s still quite a lot of data, including information about the videos you watch, comments you write, private messages you send, and — if you agree to grant this level of access — your exact geolocation and contact lists. TikTok’s?privacy policy?also says the company collects your email address, phone number, age, search and browsing history, information about what’s in the photos and videos you upload, and if you consent, the contents of your device’s clipboard so that you can copy and paste information into the app.

TikTok’s source code closely resembles that of its China-based analogue, Douyin, said Lin in an interview. That implies both apps are developed on the same code base and customized for their respective markets, he said. Theoretically, TikTok could have “privacy-violating hidden features” that can be turned on and off with a tweak to its server code and that the public might not know about, but the limitations of trying to reverse-engineer an app made it impossible for Lin to find out whether those configurations or features exist.

If TikTok used unencrypted communications protocols, or if it tried to access contact lists or precise geolocation data without permission, or if it moved to circumvent system-level privacy safeguards built into iOS or Android, then that would be evidence of a problem, Lin said. But he found none of those things.

“We did not find any overt vulnerabilities regarding their communication protocols, nor did we find any overt security problems within the app,” Lin said. “Regarding privacy, we also did not see the TikTok app exhibiting any behaviors similar to malware.”

There have also been a number of?studies?that report TikTok is tracking users around the internet even when they are not using the app. By embedding tracking pixels on third-party websites, TikTok can collect information about a website’s visitors, the?studies?have found. TikTok has said it uses the data to bolster its advertising business. And in this respect, TikTok is not unique: the same tool is used by US tech giants including Facebook-parent Meta and Google on a far larger scale, according to?Malwarebytes, a leading cybersecurity firm.

The US government has said it is worried China could use its national security laws to access the significant amount of personal information that TikTok, like most social media applications, collects from its US users.

The laws in question are extraordinarily broad, according to western?legal experts, requiring “any organization or citizen” in China to “support, assist and cooperate with state intelligence work,” without defining what “intelligence work” means.

Here are some concerns:

Security experts say these scenarios are a possibility based on what’s publicly known about China’s laws and TikTok’s ownership structure, but stress that they are hypothetical at best. To date, there is no public evidence that Beijing has actually harvested TikTok’s commercial data for intelligence or other purposes.

Chew, the TikTok CEO, has publicly said that the Chinese government has never asked TikTok for its data, and that the company would refuse any such request.

If there’s a risk, it’s primarily concentrated in the relationship between TikTok’s Chinese parent, ByteDance, and Beijing. The main issue is that the public has few ways of verifying whether or how that relationship, if it exists, might have been exploited.

TikTok has been erecting technical and organizational barriers that it says will keep US user data safe from unauthorized access. Under the plan, known as Project Texas, the US government and third-party companies such as Oracle would also have some degree of oversight of TikTok’s data practices. TikTok is working on a similar plan for the European Union known as Project Clover.

But that hasn’t assuaged the doubts of US officials, likely because no matter what TikTok does internally, China would still theoretically have leverage over TikTok’s Chinese owners. Exactly what that implies is ambiguous, and because it is ambiguous, it is unsettling.

In congressional testimony, TikTok has sought to assure US lawmakers it is free from Chinese government influence, but it has not spoken to the degree that ByteDance may be susceptible. TikTok has also acknowledged that some China-based employees have accessed US user data, though it’s unclear for what purpose, and it has?disclosed to European users?that China-based employees may access their data as part of doing their jobs.

TikTok now has 150 million monthly active users in the United States, CEO Shou Chew confirmed on Tuesday, in a clear attempt to highlight the platform’s vast and growing reach in the country amid renewed calls for a ban.

A growing number of lawmakers in the United States and abroad have raised national security concerns about the short-form video app because of TikTok’s ties to China through its parent company, ByteDance.

TikTok acknowledged to CNN last week week that federal officials are demanding the app’s Chinese owners sell their stake in the social media platform, or risk facing a US ban of the app. In 2020, when the Trump administration made a similar threat, TikTok said it had 100 million US users.

“Now, this comes at a pivotal moment for us,” Chew said in the video Tuesday. “Some politicians have started talking about banning TikTok, now this could take TikTok away from all 150 million of you.”